$3,500 costume?

topic posted Fri, April 17, 2009 - 7:58 PM by  Rya
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Seriously...who would buy a costume this expensive?

www.etsy.com/view_listing.php
posted by:
Rya
offline Rya
Indiana
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  • Is it different? Yes. Pretty? Yes.

    Would I pay more than $200 for it? No.

    I can do my own beadwork. If I wanted something similar that badly, I'd make it myself.

    Sorry. I think it's way overpriced.
    • Well, these are no ordinary beads, the costume has fresh water pearls and sterling silver and other valuable parts.
      • Yeah...but still $3500? That's a lot of money for a costume. If I spent that much money on a costume, I'd never be able to wear it for fear of it getting dirty.
        • Or "recycled" by being taken apart at a jewelry shop...
          Speaking of which, is there a way to clean a bellydance costume?
          • Freshwater pearls and silver bits are (surprisingly) relatively cheap. Check out firemountaingems.com. I was looking for green or purple dyed pearls for a costume currently under construction. I would never use sterling silver on anything cuz of the tarnish factor.

            I think her design is neat. Even with the nice bits... maybe $300 max. But certainly not $3,500! But if someone has that kind of loot burning a hole in her zill bag, go for it!!

            How do you mean "clean"? Inside lining? Or decorated outside parts? Or a bedleh as a whole?

            I have been known to rip out and sew in a new lining when the existing one gets funky. I think the extent of cleaning the exterior depends on what the costume is constructed of. Fabrics like silk might shrink or run or look funny after getting wet.

            The aforementioned costume I'm waiting for (that is under construction) is a bright kelly green lycra. The gal who is making it has a technique for bra cup reinforcement using plastic needlepoint canvas. She says that as long as I don't use any cheapo appliques (nothing with glue), then I can hand wash it...even beaded! I think a hand wash means a dip in a sink full of cold water with a little bit of laundry detergent and swirled around. But I wouldn't do that with any mass-produced costumes. Not sure what's going on underneath the pretty sparkly bits.
  • ...please tell me there's more to this costume! $3500 for a bra and belt?? Oh, and did you see the shipping charges for the US - $75.00......hmmm, didn't look, but must include insurance and tracking.

    ...and for me, just not all that much to drool over.
    • I think those costlesscostumes.com costumes are way overpriced. $1,800?? Puh-leeeze! I've made my own from the bits I've bought from them (and rhinestones from rhinestoneguy.com) and it totaled maybe $600 (including bra, belt base, and paying a friend to cover them).
      • 600$ for material and a costume made by your friend? But for that price you can buy haute couture from a costume designer!
        • Nope. Costume made by me. Friend only covered a Victoria's Secret bra that I provided her and a belt base I also provided to her. I'm not a fan of the "sewing" part of costume making.

          Linky: people.tribe.net/sashad/ph...2b55e965c6

          There is a back-view photo posted right next to it.

          It's basically a black metal and rhinestone crystal costume with black cut-chain tassels (made by me). I consider it a custom, 1-of-a-kind costlesscostume-type-costume that cost 1/3rd the price of an off-the-shelf costume of theirs. I designed it to fit me, nobody else. Although I do have some designer costumes, I prefer the one-of-a-kinds that you won't see on 12 other dancers in any given area.

          My point is that $3,500 is way too much to spend on any costume, unless it's made out of 24kt gold threads and has real gemstones impregnated in it. With some creativity, time, and your own sweat and elbow grease, it's possible to make your own one-of-a-kind for a fraction of what others charge.
  • apparently people like her stuff...

    They are buying it. Insane as they are.

    Apparently if you start charging tons of money for simple things and use the right keywords, people will buy it!!! WOW!
  • The beadwork is dense and impressive and the materials definitely superior in their costliness to a "typical" costume. I suspect if you counted up the hours of labour (at a reasonable or moderately generous living wage) as well as the cost of materials, you coud come at least close to justifying the price. That being said, I don't know who will buy it. I'm not sure there are any bellydancers in the world who can really afford costumes that expensive, and if I WERE looking to blow that much on a costume, I'd want a custom, one-of-a-kind design, made to fit ME. For $3500, that's not unreasonable.

    However, there's the posibility that this costume isn't really expected/intended to sell. Somtimes retailers will stock a few *really* expensive items, not because they sell, but because they make other, cheaper items sell better. Eg. the customer looks at the expensive thing, reels in shock at the price, and then the other, less expensive items---in her case, the jewelry, say---look positively inexpensive and a good deal. (I knew a fellow who ran a gift shop. They stocked a few $200 leather jackets, not because the jackets sold, but because after looking at the jacket, the $40 T-shirts seemed cheap). At the same time displaying the item with the high price creates a sense of the designer's value---"she must be something special to charge that much, I'm really excited to be able to get just a little, much more affordable, something else".

    As to that costume itself---while I have to say the closeup of the beadwork made my jaw drop, I wasn't impressed with the overall effect. The detail doesn't carry well from a performance perspective. Maybe it would be good for close-up restaurant work, though.
  • Design-wise, I consider it a masterpiece, at least from the front. And you ladies know that getting the design just right can be the most labor intensive part of the process. If she spent.

    However, there are some unanswered questions about its suitabilty as a hard-working professional costume. We don't see shots of the sides or back, so you don't know how it is fastened or what it looks like to the 75% of the audience who is not looking at you head on at any particular time. The strap around the neck does not meet with my approval, even if you are small breasted - dancers will need that part of their spinal cord when they get older! And the tied belt --- unless the belt is properly contoured (which cannot be determined from the picture) instead of a rectangle then that belt is likely to travel.

    Right now, it might be nothing more than great art for the wall. But yes, worth the $3500 when compared to other pieces of art I saw today!
    • Well, let's suppose there's $500 for materials. I'd believe that this project took around 300 hours to make, which at $10/hr (a dirt cheap rate for a skilled jeweler) makes it an acceptable figure. As Maura said, this is probably meant for display, not to wear. In short, it's fine art not a recital outfit. If she can sell her artwork for that price, more power to her. Yes, you can get cheaper stuff from sweatshops. Yes, your own work is "cheaper" as long as you don't count the cost of your labor. But that's not really the point of fine art--it's worth is in the eye of the buyer.
      • I'd have to agree with you on the time element. I hand embroider bellydance items (headbands, chokers, hip scarves) for myself and for friends as presents. One of the main reasons that I haven't sold them is that including minimum wage for my time they are prohibitively expensive for most people to buy. A narrow headband in a simple geometric can take me seven hours to embroider and I do a lot of embroidery so I can sew fast and well. This belt must have taken hours.

        I worked out that the wide headband I made for myself, including minimum wage for my time in making it and all the parts (three coins, flowers, fabric and embroidery thread - about £10) is worth about £85. Whilst I love it, it's practically indestructible as everything is securely stitched and not glued and it's a one of a kind individual, I doubt many people would pay that.
  • "However, there's the posibility that this costume isn't really expected/intended to sell. Somtimes retailers will stock a few *really* expensive items, not because they sell, but because they make other, cheaper items sell better. Eg. the customer looks at the expensive thing, reels in shock at the price, and then the other, less expensive items---in her case, the jewelry, say---look positively inexpensive and a good deal. (I knew a fellow who ran a gift shop. They stocked a few $200 leather jackets, not because the jackets sold, but because after looking at the jacket, the $40 T-shirts seemed cheap). At the same time displaying the item with the high price creates a sense of the designer's value---"she must be something special to charge that much, I'm really excited to be able to get just a little, much more affordable, something else"."

    That makes sense. Especially after I looked at her other items. I'm sure they were time consuming to make but I just can't spend $40 on a pendant either. I guess it works. She sells a lot of stuff.
  • Granted, that is a beautiful costume, very nicely done and very unique.
    But I can guarantee that it did not cost more than a couple hundred dollars to make it - if that much, and no more time to make it than other costumes. I'd be surprised if she had many customers. Even if I was rich and I had thousands of dollars to spend on costuming, I would rather by several, equally beautiful and well made costumes.
    Thanks for posting this, though! Very unique costuming elements - I'll save the picture for inspiration.
  • Though the cost is in the "OUCH, that's expensive", the amount of beading, materials,sewing, the variety of beads as well as their age, I'd say it's reasonable. I've also noticed that when you start using vintage materials, cost goes up. I've done bead embroidery like this, not that extensive mind you, but I've covered small things and that was time consuming in itself and I'm a slow beader/sewer because I like to be thorough and as precise as possible. LOL! Designing the piece, I can only imagine how much time she spent on that, in fact I sent her a message asking her.

    I planned on doing some beading on a wedding album, simple border design, not a lot of flair and I spent about $30 in the beads alone, seed beads/pearls in whites and creams. I also planned on incorporating a few wedding flowers, beaded trim and a few ab crystals and tiny silver beads as accents. The rest of the construction of the album, antique white wedding satin, cream and white lace, batting, glue and poster board, which came up to about $40.. That's $70 bucks and I haven't even started with my time yet. Without the beading, just covering the album alone would take me approximately 5-6hrs and that doesn't include dry time for the glue. Now add that to a reasonable wage of say $10hr, I'm practically up to $100 bucks now. I'm sure that would be a reasonable amount, but if I added the beading work it's going to quadruple in cost, if not more. Of course I know I'm a slow beader so I'd charge a bit less for my time, $7-$8hr. Some people would think that was just crazy. I figure after tweaking the design, transferring it onto the material and beading it, i'm looking at approximately 50hrs of work maybe more, maybe less. I don't think anyone would want to pay almost $500 for a wedding album but the amount of work/time put into it, makes it worth that much if not more. If I was to sell it, I'd be lucky if I got half. Now is that fair to me? No. Of course the idea is all approximation. I have yet to start that album but I still have all the materials for it. I guess I could start on it now and hopefully be done by the time my daughter marries. I figure I'll have about 5-10yrs to finish it. LOL!

    To someone looking from the outside in, the cost is outrageous but to those of us who have done work like this or have done even a fraction can understand the time, the blood, the frustration, the joy put into creating a magnificent piece of art, be it for a conversational piece or a functional working piece.
    • I just got a reply... She said she's estimating about 250hrs. It was featured in the BeadnButton/BeadDreams 2006 issue for "wearable art". She was a finalist and that the piece took about a year to finish. She really does some beautiful work. She sent me a link to her Flikr album.

      www.flickr.com/photos/84369964@N00/
      • I'm not dissing her work or her time. I've done beading myself...and vowed that unless I'm bedridden for a while, I prolly won't do it again. I say prolly cause I am kind of crazy.

        I'm just saying that it's really expensive for a belly dancer to buy and wear. To justify a $3500 costume, you'd have to be doing celebrity parties or something every week. In other words, really expensive for the market.
        • No,no,,, I wasn't implying you dissing her work.. Sorry if that came across like that. I was speaking generally. There are still a lot of people that look at things like this and say I can do that for less and maybe they could but for those of us that KNOW, it's the time more than it is the materials. My grandmother used to crochet baby sets, blanket, booties, hat, diaper cover, dress, the whole nine yards and noone wanted to pay her what she was asking and me, I thought she was practically giving the stuff away with her pricing.

          Yeah, it's definetly an expensive for a dancer, that I agree but beautiful and inspiring. I'm kinda crazy too and have been thinking about doing a bit of bead embroidery on a bra that I bought that is actually a cup size to small. Crazy, because i'm thinking of doing it just to do it, even if I can sell it or not. LOL!
          • >> There are still a lot of people that look at things like this and say I can do that for less and maybe they could but for those of us that KNOW, it's the time more than it is the materials. My grandmother used to crochet baby sets, blanket, booties, hat, diaper cover, dress, the whole nine yards and noone wanted to pay her what she was asking and me, I thought she was practically giving the stuff away with her pricing.

            I've had people say to their friends RIGHT IN FRONT OF ME while I'm vending at workshops "Oh, I could make that for so much less". Well, yes, you could -- because you don't charge yourself for your time! Not to mention all of the other "overhead" costs that are involved with being a vendor that you have to take into account (so you can pay for them *somehow*) -- like websites, business cards, vending fees, listing fees, paypal fees....on & on & on. I truly believe that most people today don't have an appreciation for the true cost of something that is hand-made. We're too used to Walmart/Old Navy sweatshop prices.
            • As a person who often thinks "I could make that for less," there's a lot to be said for the people who actually take the time to do it. I haven't bought a ton of stuff, because I believe I can make it myself. I HAVEN'T made it myself… yet? So many projects in mind that I've probably forgotten half of them, don't really know how to do 1/3 of them, and haven't done the rest.

              When the time comes for me to need more costume pieces, I go with what feels right at the time… so I end up with nothing embellished, because I haven't allowed myself time for it. I think "well, I can embellish after the first time, so it's ready for the second time." It's a rotten circle but I bring on myself.

              So I have great respect for those who actually make the stuff, especially when they're making enough to sell. I barely make stuff in time to wear them…
              • I have several notebooks full of project ideas and the ideas don't stop coming either. I don't seem to have enough time for anything either, mostly i'm so darn tired which doesn't help the mind and the hands to cooperate. I do so many different things that it can become overwhelming. Sewing, crochet, cross-stitch, sculpting, polymer clay, wirework, chainmaille, seed bead embroidery, beaded jewelry, jewlery, and more... My excuse is they all coencide with each other sooner or later. LOL!

                I've had someone say, Oh I could make that for less before and I said " how valuable is your time to you?" They looked at me funny, I explained that though the materials may be rather inexpensive for this piece, the amount of time in design and construction is more. I then asked " How would you like to not get paid for the time you do a project at work, just the equivalent cost of the materials only? " Another example I've used is the whole car repair, labor is more expensive than the parts themselves. I could do it for less if I learned how to do the work and had the time to do it.

                I also find myself saying I could do that, but most of the time it's not about the price, it's the workmanship of the piece. Someday, I'll get around to making the paperweights with the encased roses and my grandfathers passing. The ones my grandmother ordered and paid for were not what she wanted at all and the workmanship was so bad my grandmother cried and that pissed me off. I told my grandmother never again accept that kind of work, period.

                Workmanship is my biggest peeve, which sometimes will conencide with the pricing because I don't think that the price is relative to the workmanship of the piece. To often I see bad workmanship and overpriced and good workmanship underpriced.
              • My partner and I do that sometimes. She's an artist and I'm crafty and we'll both go, "we could do that." But, I'm smart enough to ask, "Yes, but WOULD we?" That seems to help as far as the cost of an item.
                • This is why I buy my fluffy 25-yard skirts; I *could* make them, but the time and annoyance it would take me to ruffle all that gauzy fabric makes it worth the expense. Hell, if I were making them, I'd have to charge a considerable amount more than the commercial ones usually go for.
  • looking at the costume, she's definitely charging for her time. 20.00/h works out to 175 hours.

    I suspect that she's either new to belly dance or has friends who are newer dancers - looking at the costume I don't see that there is much by way of shaping to the belt, and that other than the lovely beadwork there is no other embellishment such as drapes or fringe or any finishing work to the bra other than the cups (straps and sides are very plain). My guess is an experienced beadworker/artist making a foray into belly dance costume. For as lovely and extensive as the beadwork is, the details of the ensemble look too simple and 'unfinished' to my eyes.
    • Yes, but you have to charge for your time, not to do so a) is a waste of your time if you can't sell an item and b) devalues the hard work of people who depend upon craftsmanship for their livelihood.

      Unfortunately our culture is so inured to being able to buy a pretty decorated t-shirt for $3/£3 that they have no appreciation of what it really takes to make anything.

      That sucks.
      • I couldn't afford to buy the items that I tailor myself if I counted the time investment. And frankly, no one else can either. I'm constantly telling people that I'm not for hire.
      • I run into this all the time; people who would never accept minimum-wage (or less) at their own jobs expect artistic people to work for almost nothing.

        Bellydancers need to remember that while the fancy beaded Egyptian costumes may seem expensive already, if they were being made in North America with our minimum-wage laws, the costumes would cost at least twice as much - they'd be haute couture.

        I had a query about my Mata Hari costume, asking how much it would cost if I'd make another one. I was stumped as I didn't actually count the hours, but it would probably run up to at least as much as the one above.
      • Absolutely you have to charge for your time, the problem being is that very few people actually want or can afford to pay for it. It doesn't help that folks are so far removed these days from the processes of how their food and clothing are produced that they don't even have an accurate idea of what it takes to make a practical item much less a coture or art item. I have family members who have been career artists for years, and they never seem to run out of people who are shocked and surprised at the prices they charge for what they do. And they do undercharge for what they do. It's a hard balance to keep.

        Its overall a sad loop to get caught in. ' They want how much for *that*?? I can make that for cheaper. I spent a lot of money on materials and its taken me a year to make. I should sell this, but I want my materials and my time paid for. What do you mean I'm charging too much and you can make it yourself....'
        • In my opinion, "art" is a little trickier than clothing and costuming. Simply from the standpoint of what people consider art. Clothing is anything that can be worn. (And if I don't think real people can wear something, I'm probably not going to buy it anyway.) But art… there are things that look like a scribbly line on canvas. Maybe there is more to it than that, but that's what it looks like to me, so I'm not likely to want to pay you extra for your time. Or there are some things that look like a crushed Pepsi can. I really could make that one myself, out of a Pepsi can, if I really want.

          I'm not trying to be beligerent, or to belittle artists. I'm just pointing out that "art" can be defined in many ways by many people, and that's a lot of why people don't want to pay for time.
          • <<... that's a lot of why people don't want to pay for time.>>

            And there's even more to it than that. A lot of people *can't* pay for the time. One can complain that no one is willing to pay a "living wage", and one can just as easily counter that no one is willing to charge a "realistic wage". In other words, just because your time is worth $20/hour to you, doesn't mean that $20/hour is affordable for someone to pay. We don't all buy $3 tee-shirts because we don't think workers in sweat factories deserve what little they get, but we're also working hard for our money and can't afford $50 tee-shirts. How many of us could even afford to pay $3,500 for a costume? That's three months' mortgage for an average home! If that's what it's worth to her to part with it, power to her, and I hope she finds someone who is willing and able to make it worth her while. But I, for one, won't feel guilty about ordering from Moondance instead.


            • Except this argument "but I can't afford things that are priced fairly" is inherently flawed. If somebody can't afford a new car, they don't turn around and demand that the people making the cars get paid less so the price of the new car can be lower - they just choose not to buy a new car.

              The overseas sweatshop industry has created an unrealistic expectation for low prices in the West, and that's the core of the problem. Everybody should be paid a decent wage, it's as simple as that. And if that means that someone with lower income has to make the choice of buying secondhand clothes instead of new (something I do myself a lot), or making costume items themselves instead of buying (ditto), then so be it.

              Unfortunately companies outsourcing their manufacturing to sweatshops is not likely to stop anytime soon, but people can still make ethical choices when shopping and remember that things manufactured in the West *have* to be priced higher, but it also means you're supporting jobs in your community/country.
              • Yes, I totally agree.

                There's also a piece of research which established your money spent in a locally owned small to medium business, especially on local products, is worth 4x as much to your local economy as shopping in a superstore where money is not cycled around locally. A more affluent local community is a happier, safer local community with better local taxation funded amenities.

                Buy less shit! Buy local!

                :D
      • marylittlegoth you are so right. I'm an artist and people expect me to paint their pet, child, or anything else for that matter for a pittance. They expect it because tehre are people out there who are prepared to pay £30 for something really really awful (that some hobby artist has made and its not their main source of income), and that undermines us artists who make our living out of our work. Its SOOO frustrating.
        You can see my art at www.barleymoon.com
  • i think the scarf ties make it look cheap, and i am no fan of costumes without any fringe at all
    • From looking at her other pieces for sale, the woman is a real artist. The costume may not be great for most of us as a belly dance costume, but it is the perfect advertisement of her craft, and I'm sure she has gotten a lot of orders for wedding gowns and other costume pieces through that outfit. In that case, it is very worth it for her. Is it reasonably priced? For most of us no way. Is it reasonably priced for a show piece for her work? I'm sure she will eventually find someone willing to pay for it, and they will become the perfect advertisement for her too.
  • Mo
    Mo
    online 12
    1-i agree with so many others... my time IS worth money.
    1.5-"i can do that", yes, but WILL I? hell no! as a crafter/artiste, my rule is this - if i can't figure out how it's made, or i don't have the time, i buy. (25-yarders online for me, yo! then i make my own bra/belt combos.)
    2-in a modern Western world where "art" can be piss-in-a-jar-with-a-cross that goes for thousands of dollars, and taxpayers are billed for public works of "art" that are no more than bronze slagpiles or roughcut marble cornerstones (the price of materials in these cases nowhere nearly justifying the cost of the 'piece') --- THIS WOMAN DESERVES THE PRICE SHE IS ASKING. given money to burn, i would rather stare at this in my lounge than a Picasso or Pollack any day of the year.
    3-it is a great showpiece for her talents, and likely will get her other work.
    4-there are markets for obscenely expensive clothing. gowns worn to the Oscars? wedding gowns? etc...

    i admire her art and her audacity.

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